Bush: Mukasey not 'read into' terrorist interrogation

"President Bush insists that senators are asking “unfair’’ questions of Michael Mukasey, his nominee for attorney general, about a terrorist interrogation program that the former federal judge hasn’t been fully briefed about yet – “He’s not been read into a program,’’ Bush said. Mukasey, he said, doesn't know what techniques are being used."

Ummm, I think it was Bush himself who said "we don't torture", so with that being said, Mukasey should have NO problem answering the waterboarding question ...unless Bush was lying when he said "we don't torture".

The issue isn't regarding the specific techniques the U.S. may or may not be using. The issue is waterboarding itself. Does Mukasey believe waterboarding is legal or not?

Mukasey wants the Senate to believe he is too inexperienced to know what waterboarding is and/or that he does not know what the law is to be able to comment on the issue.

That, for me, would disqualify him either because he is inexperienced or because he is not sufficiently knowledgeable for the position. We already tried having a "fresh, inexperienced" president run the show and, as a result, we'll be in Iraq for the next ten years at least.

Perhaps the gentlemen at Gitmo would be so kind as to demonstrate waterboarding and some of their other specialties on Mukasey so he can come to a conclusion as to whether or not we are torturing detainees. In fact, why not allow Mr. Bush to experience it as well?

Well there are those who do not consider waterboarding to be torture. And then we also have the fact that information received from waterboarding King Head-Chopping Terrorists Kahleid Sheik Mohammed prevented a terrorist attack.
For those that say, by us using waterboarding only allows it to be done to our own troops, well far worse had been done long ago. How about telling the four contractors who were tortured, dismembered and hung 4.5 years ago that waterboarding is evil? How about telling Nick Berg, Danny Pearl or the other folks beheaded by Al Zaquawi and Al Qaeda operatives that waterboarding is evil?

Rather than asking the head-chopping terrorist thugs what is nice treatment or not, I would prefer putting folks like Kennedy, Durbin (and I would start with him first), Reid, Leaky Leahy in the same stalls as the head-chopping terrorists in Gitmo and I would give those terrorists machetes and see what they do with them to the likes of Durbin and Kennedy.

To get an idea what waterboarding is like rent the video "Blackbook" from Paul Verhoeven. A story about the Jews and how they tried to survive the german occupation of the Netherlands. The DVD has in fact 2 versions of the movie. One just regular and another with comments throughout by Paul Verhoeven who was born in Holland and lived there till Hollywood invited him to make many well known movies.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000682/

For an oversight of the movies he has made...

I'd like to know exactly how much information we've obtained by waterboarding, and how much of it is accurate.

It's only logical that a person enduring this treatment would say anything -- absolutely anything -- to escape it. I have serious questions about the reliability of any information gained by torture.

Besides that, waterboarding just gives al Qaeda more fodder to say "You see, brothers and sisters in the Arab world? All Americans are evil and reprehensible. You are justified in murdering them. You're also justified in torturing American soldiers."

We're handing al Qaeda all the propaganda they need.

I know the other side tortures Americans, and it enrages me too. But it's got to stop somewhere. The question is whether we're going to be the nobler country. Thousands of Arabs (particularly women) secretly still long to come to America. Let's keep it that way.

I would prefer putting folks like Kennedy, Durbin (and I would start with him first), Reid, Leaky Leahy in the same stalls as the head-chopping terrorists in Gitmo and I would give those terrorists machetes and see what they do with them to the likes of Durbin and Kennedy.

Posted by: John D | November 1, 2007 3:03 PM

Here we go again, if a Democrat ever questions a Republican, Little Johnny D thinks they should be tossed into Gitmo.
If other Republicans on here are wondering why your party is flushing itsself down the toilet look no farther than the thought process (John D) of one of your most ardent "supporters".
http://www.bushflash.com/14.html

Oh look! The President just vomitted and the dead-ender Republic worshippers including John D. are licking it up. Gross!

Honestly folks, this is pretty simple.

Waterboarding falls into the category of actions forbidden by the Geneva Conventions.

The US is a signatory of the Geneva Conventions.

All treaties to which the US is a signatory have the same force and effect as any law enacted by Congress.

QED: Waterboarding -- like all torture -- is illegal. Period.

The President can issue as many executive orders and signing statements as he wants, it's still illegal under US law. I'm not a fan of impeachment, for those who are, his tacit admission that we do, in fact, torture, is all the proof you need of a crime sufficient to constitute grounds for impeachment.

The President is suggesting that 'harsh interrogation techniques' are required to prevent terrorist attacks. Why should we believe him? I remember 9/11. I remember how he ignored warnings and went on vacation when the 'system was blinking red.' I remember his how he remained sitting in Booker Elementary after he knew a second plane had hit the WTC. Yet he has the gall to suggest citizens should buy his notion that the Constitution and the Geneva Conventions must be trashed to prevent terror attacks.

This is sick. Torture doesn't work. Why should the US resort to tactics used by the likes of Saddam Hussein?

So the Tortuter-in-Chief wants to appoint a guy who doesn't know anything about anything. Heck of a job he's doing there.

John D,

No matter how henious a wrong is, two of them still don't make a "right". If we start comparing our actions relevence to those of terrorists, we are certainly on the path to being no better then the ones we judge our actions against.

We are a better society because we hold ourselves to a higher standard. Fear makes people say and do stupid things. Stop being so fearful.

Best Regards

President Bush insists that senators are asking “unfair’’ questions of Michael Mukasey, his nominee for attorney general, about a terrorist interrogation program that the former federal judge hasn’t been fully briefed about yet – “He’s not been read into a program,’’ Bush said. Mukasey, he said, doesn't know what techniques are being used.

Lack of preparation and forethought. But that's what we've come to expect from the inept Bush administration.

Waterboarding is nothing new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

The Nazi's loved it. After world war II several were charged with war crimes for waterboarding. Whether waterboarding is torture is NOT an open question. It is, it always has been, it always will be.

Bush and his crew are liars. America does torture, because of him.

Every body seems to be assuming that waterboarding is torture, why? Congress had (and still has) the ability to declare it so and make it so. It chose not to. Please don’t insult people's intelligence by acting as if Durbin and the rest care about anything other than making are point.

Mr. Howe makes the point that this is simple; he is very correct. He is simply wrong also. Your opinion is not fact. Where in the Geneva Convention does it declare waterboarding to be torture? Simple isn’t it? It is just like saying ILLEGAL wiretaps. Illegal says who?

"How about telling the four contractors who were tortured, dismembered and hung 4.5 years ago that waterboarding is evil? How about telling Nick Berg, Danny Pearl or the other folks beheaded by Al Zaquawi and Al Qaeda operatives that waterboarding is evil?"

How disingenuous: they're evil so we should be evil. Maybe you can put more thought into your post and explain how waterboarding would have prevented these individual acts? Given that our government was most likely already employing waterboarding as an interrogation technique at the time these atrocities were committed, I guess it shows that it really isn't all that effective, as it didn't prevent these acts from occurring. Or perhaps you are suggesting that our soldiers be given carte blanche to kidnap and kill Iraqi journalists and civilians that disagree with our social and religious beliefs. You being a Republiscum, my guess is the latter.

"I'm not going to talk about techniques,'' the president said. "There is an enemy out there.''

An enemy on every corner. Man this freak Bush plays the fear card at every opportunity.

What a scumbag.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/opinion/08pubed.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Beat, beat and beat again!

When asked how to treat political prisoners and get information out of them, as quoted in Nikita Khrushchev's Secret Speech "On the Personality Cult and its Consequences" (25 February 1956)

I say we waterboard John D--then he can tell us if that is torture!

Mucasey does not have to be read into anything to be able to answer the question, is waterboarding torture.
The way this question should be presented to him is:
Yes or no, in your opinion, is waterboarding torture?"
If you do not say no, whatever you say, this governmental body shall officially record your answer as yes." No weaseling out. No, or it is a yes.
Once we know his opinion of waterbaording, is it torture or not, then we can debate other things.

"I would prefer putting folks like Kennedy, Durbin (and I would start with him first), Reid, Leaky Leahy in the same stalls as the head-chopping terrorists in Gitmo and I would give those terrorists machetes and see what they do with them to the likes of Durbin and Kennedy.

Posted by: John D | November 1, 2007 3:03 PM"

This from somebody who is quick to jump on the soapbox if anybody doesn't get tragedy-stricken when a Republican faces misfortune. Also from somebody whose rampant paranoia gets expressed every time he thinks one of his many, many, many enemies is trying to "get" him. While I'm in agreement that it's hardly humane to gloat over somebody's misfortune or to wish ill on another human being -- this, an entirely typical quote from John D., certainly makes me wonder why I bother.

John D-

You are as barbaric as the terrorists.

What in the world would a "program" change?

It's pretty black & white. We know what waterboarding is. The guy should be able to answer the question as to whether it's torture or not. Whether it's illegal or not.

What is he supposed to do, get in the office, look at this classified info, and then turn around and say "ohhhh... I seee... they've got a 'PROGRAM'. That makes all the difference!"

Bush: “The job of Attorney General is essential to the security of America” … “Some in Washington should spend more time responding to the warnings of terrorists like Osama bin Laden, and the requests of our commanders on the ground, and less time responding to the demands of MoveOn.org bloggers and Code Pink protesters.”

Bush:“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”

Bush:“I don’t know where he is. I’ll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.”

Bush:“Deep in my heart I know the man’s on the run, if he’s alive at all…I just don’t spend much time on it, really, to be honest with you.”

What a hypocrite. Worst vice president ever.

Waterboard GOP dead enders that live in Streamwood!!!

Why not try waterboarding as a punishment for rapist, child molesters and murderers. Maybe, torture could solve the overcrowded prison problem here in the U.S. While the Congress is busy asking questions about "fictitious terrorists", Americans are being terrorized everyday with horrific crimes that need to be addressed, and for which we are running out of space in the prison system. I would not object to a federal torture law, to which states must adhere, for child molesters. Maybe torture would cure them of their depravity.

This guy is already cowering under the pressure of the Bush Administration. He KNOWS in his heart that torture is wrong. He also knows what answers the Bushies want him to say. Another Gonzales.

Kg, I understand the position of not stooping to the level of the terrorists. As I have stated before, if such an event as waterboarding prevents a terrorist attack in which hundreds or thousands of innocents are not killed, I am OK with that. I would rather have one terrorist tortured than see the faces of thousands of family members and friends mourning the loss of a loved one.

Kahleid Sheik Mohammed chopped off the heads of several innocents. He was a 9/11 mastermind, which killed 3,000 innocents. I have seen the video of Nick Berg's head being sawed off, which was done by Al Zaquawi (also now dead). Whatever has been done to them is OK by me. Seeing someone's head chopped off or seeing all the sad faces on those who lost loved ones, is something I never want to see again.

John D-

And when we torture the wrong people, then what?

What happens when we torture a "suspected terrorist" and we find out he knows nothing of value?

We just create more sad faces. But they're muslim faces. You like sad muslim faces, don't you?

As to KSM and what we found out from torturing him, it was alot of what he gave us was probably disinformation.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-terror21oct21,0,3798048,full.story?coll=la-home-center

"The FBI is especially interested in Mohammed, who during the more than three years he spent in CIA custody boasted that he had killed Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl and orchestrated more than two dozen other terrorist plots. Several senior counter-terrorism officials said they believed that Mohammed falsely confessed to some things, including the Pearl slaying, under duress or to obscure the roles played by operatives who might still be on the loose."

Torture is a lousy way to get evidence or information.

But thinking about torture makes John D all excited. It makes him feel tough and manly. John D loves torture for torture's sake.

seeing all the sad faces on those who lost loved ones, is something I never want to see again.

Posted by: John D | November 2, 2007 9:43 AM

Then why do you want to stay in Iraq or go to Iran?

So Michael Mukasey's new line is that waterboarding may be "repugnant," but he's not sure if the Spanish-Inquisition-era torture technique is illegal. Or, to put it another way, he can't say for sure if the practice is illegal until he's confirmed as attorney general.

Mukasey should listen to longtime counterterrorism expert Malcolm Nance. Nance, a veteran of counterterrorism operations in Iraq, has written a moving post for the counterinsurgency blog Small Wars Journal explaining, in more detail than anyone else has in public, what exactly waterboarding is. And Nance knows what he's talking about. As a former instructor at the Navy's training program, Nance confesses that he "personally led, witnessed and supervised waterboarding of hundreds of people" -- not detainees, of course, but would-be SEALs, so they could learn how (hopefully) to resist torture. That training program, known as Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape (SERE), became a template for how to abuse detainees in U.S. custody.

Nance's experience leads him to some sharp conclusions:

1. Waterboarding is a torture technique. Period. There is no way to gloss over it or sugarcoat it. It has no justification outside of its limited role as a training demonstrator. Our service members have to learn that the will to survive requires them accept and understand that they may be subjected to torture, but that America is better than its enemies and it is one's duty to trust in your nation and God, endure the hardships and return home with honor.

2. Waterboarding is not a simulation. Unless you have been strapped down to the board, have endured the agonizing feeling of the water overpowering your gag reflex, and then feel your throat open and allow pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs, you will not know the meaning of the word.

Waterboarding is a controlled drowning that, in the American model, occurs under the watch of a doctor, a psychologist, an interrogator and a trained strap-in/strap-out team. It does not simulate drowning, as the lungs are actually filling with water. There is no way to simulate that. The victim is drowning. How much the victim is to drown depends on the desired result (in the form of answers to questions shouted into the victim's face) and the obstinacy of the subject. A team doctor watches the quantity of water that is ingested and for the physiological signs which show when the drowning effect goes from painful psychological experience, to horrific suffocating punishment to the final death spiral.

Waterboarding is slow motion suffocation with enough time to contemplate the inevitability of black out and expiration –usually the person goes into hysterics on the board. For the uninitiated, it is horrifying to watch and if it goes wrong, it can lead straight to terminal hypoxia. When done right it is controlled death. Its lack of physical scarring allows the victim to recover and be threaten with its use again and again.

Call it "Chinese Water Torture," "the Barrel," or "the Waterfall," it is all the same. Whether the victim is allowed to comply or not is usually left up to the interrogator. Many waterboard team members, even in training, enjoy the sadistic power of making the victim suffer and often ask questions as an after thought. These people are dangerous and predictable and when left unshackled, unsupervised or undetected they bring us the murderous abuses seen at Abu Ghraieb, Baghram and Guantanamo. No doubt, to avoid human factors like fear and guilt someone has created a one-button version that probably looks like an MRI machine with high intensity waterjets.

Michael Mukasey, please -- read the whole thing. Then answer a simple question: If someone did this to an American citizen against his will, has that person committed a crime?

source: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004617.php#more

"I would rather have one terrorist tortured than see the faces of thousands of family members and friends mourning the loss of a loved one."

Posted by: John D | November 2, 2007 9:43 AM

John you just don't get it.