Dem debate viewers don't like licenses for illegals

Why aren't we talking about punishing HEAVILY car dealers and anyone who sells a vehicle to anyone who does not have a valid drivers license?

So are we now going to see a bunch of posts from the Left here about how these Democrats are xenophobe racists like they say about Republicans?

I would imagine that the Queen B will now "clarify" her position to that she is officially against the idea of drivers' licenses for illegals.

Drivers licenses might be a way to actually document some of these illegals (fingerprints etc)...but as is usual you can count on the rightwing lunitic fringe not being able to think that far in advance.

Interestingly, Swamp posts only Hillary's picture under the licenses to illegal immigrants banner in a continued effort to try to make it her issue, and not a Democrat issue, when all but one Democrat on that stage either tacitly or explicitly (in the case of Obama) expressed support for the idea, with Hillary being the least committal to the notion than anyone other than Dodd, who opposed it.

There are enough bad drivers on the road already.

Defining immigration reform is where the major problem lies. We have been shouting for years that we don't want multi-culti bi-lingual you are a racist if you don't agree with us garbage shoved down our throats. Immigrants should at a minimum follow our rules, learn our language, and expect no special favors. We are reasonable people put into a situation we tried to, and thought we did, prevent. The elites had better learn this is one issue they can no longer dictate.

The U.S. need immigrants. As the boomers die off, we will need workers to replace them.
However, the law is the law. If you don't like the law, you don't just go out and violate it, you change it.
We need to enforce our laws, all of them, and we need to devise a way for good people to come to this country, legally, and do productive work for us.

". . . and more than half 63%, do not support the idea of providing drivers’ licenses to illegal immigrants."

Well, isn't that a surprise? NOT! It just goes to show how out of touch some candidates are with their own voting public.

The true Hillary really showed up. Shallow, evasive, untruthful, confused, and dazed. Just what America needs to deal with people like Putin and Chavez.

Actually drivers licenses could be a way to actually document (fingerprints etc) some of the illegals but the would involve getting the rightwing lunitic fringe to think that far ahead without their heads exploding.

Not fair. Those bad old Democwat men candidates just piled on the wittle girl on this question, just because she wanted to answer it three different ways. They just wanted to make her cwy. If they do that again, she's going to take her doll and go home.

I'm more concerned with the fact that this is bringing us closer to a National I.D. card. It would be like a Social Security card with your picture, a magnetic strip with all of your legal and financial data, a hologram for authenticity and you won't be able to exist without it.

Hopefully enough people with enough money will reject national ID as an invasion of THEIR privacy. Maybe it won't happen.

Drivers licenses might be a way to actually document some of these illegals (fingerprints etc)...but as is usual you can count on the rightwing lunitic fringe not being able to think that far in advance.

Posted by: John E | November 1, 2007 4:05 PM

John, try really hard to get all I’m going to tell you into that 5 nanometer wide brain cell you have.

First, it isn’t only right wingers that oppose handing out driver’s licenses to illegal aliens. A commanding majority of Democrats think that handing driver’s licenses to illegal aliens is a very bad idea. Furthermore, 72 percent of New York State resident’s – who are predominantly Democrats – totally oppose the measure. Please find another occasion to criticize so-called right wingers.

Second, the single rational of being able “to actually document some of these illegals” is a pathetic excuse for the measure in comparison with the harm it will cause. In case you didn’t know it, handing driver’s licenses to illegal aliens in New York will allow them to purchase rifles and shotguns there. This is one of the reasons Mayor Bloomberg opposes the measure.

Next, consider the fact that giving illegal aliens a driver’s license will allow them to integrate into society and get jobs. These people shouldn’t even be able to walk the streets in our country, but Governor Spitzer has decided that he is going to grant them the privilege of driving the streets, even to work. And, by letting them drive, you make them available to get any job that requires them to drive but doesn’t require a chauffeur or other, special driver’s license. That will allow them to take jobs American citizens and legal aliens should have.

Furthermore, by giving them a driver’s license, you make the criminal element among them mobile. Yes, we would like them all to exercise mobility in returning home to their country of origin. But now you have given criminals an opportunity to evade detection and arrest, and to escape prosecution for the crimes they commit. And, in case you didn’t know, we don’t have an extradition treaty with Mexico. So, once they drive back across the border, they are home free. We can’t touch them after that.

Lastly, consider the fact that handing out a driver’s license to a person who can’t come up with a valid Social Security Number is a violation of federal law. But, of course, if we don’t give a damn about the fact that handing out driver’s licenses to illegal aliens encourages people to violate the federal immigration laws, I don’t suppose that fracturing a few more federal laws makes that much more difference, does it?

A few people with more brain cells have thought this all through a little more than you think. It is not a good idea.

From John W:
"John (and he is writing to John E.), try really hard to get all I’m going to tell you into that 5 nanometer wide brain cell you have."

John W., it's nice to see that you recognize the waste that is John E!

Speaking of which, once again John E. showed he has no ability to read, comprehend, understand. The above survey was of DEMOCRATS, DEMOCRATS who opposed the idea of driver's licenses for illegals, yet the Supreme Idiot John E. railes against "right wingers."

consider the fact that handing out a driver’s license to a person who can’t come up with a valid Social Security Number is a violation of federal law.

Posted by: John W. |November 2, 2007 7:12 AM

If this is true than how come Utah and other states have allowed illegals to have driver's licenses?

[quote]
Why aren't we talking about punishing HEAVILY car dealers and anyone who sells a vehicle to anyone who does not have a valid drivers license?

Posted by: jethro | November 1, 2007 3:57 PM
[/quote]

Because it's NOT against the law to sell a car to someone without a driver's license.

[quote]
Posted by: John W. | November 2, 2007 7:12 AM
[/quote]

"A commanding majority of Democrats think that handing driver’s licenses to illegal aliens is a very bad idea. Furthermore, 72 percent of New York State resident’s – who are predominantly Democrats – totally oppose the measure."

-- Your source for these statistics is? Link please.

"In case you didn’t know it, handing driver’s licenses to illegal aliens in New York will allow them to purchase rifles and shotguns there."

-- I thought that one needs a Firearm Owner's ID card to buy guns; has the law changed? If so, please provide a link to the news regarding this law change.

"consider the fact that giving illegal aliens a driver’s license will allow them to integrate into society and get jobs."

-- And that's different from reality today HOW? Illegal immigrants are already driving on our roads to their jobs, to stores, to church, etc.

"by letting them drive, you make them available to get any job that requires them to drive"

-- And there are plenty of employers who hire illegals to drive even if they don't have a driver's license. Again, this is different from reality today HOW?

"That will allow them to take jobs American citizens and legal aliens should have."

-- 12 million illegal immigrants are taking jobs from Americans TODAY. Again, this is different from reality HOW?

"by giving them a driver’s license, you make the criminal element among them mobile."

-- So if they don't have licenses they're just going to stay hidden inside the houses, apartments and trailers that they live in? You're kidding, right?

"once they drive back across the border, they are home free. We can’t touch them after that."

-- Like that political fugitive from Daley's administration that fled to Mexico so that he wouldn't have to testify against the Mayor's friends?

"handing out a driver’s license to a person who can’t come up with a valid Social Security Number is a violation of federal law."

-- Now you finally have raised a valid point.

"handing out driver’s licenses to illegal aliens encourages people to violate the federal immigration laws"

-- I thought that illegal immigrants were coming here to take jobs that Americans won't do; are you saying that their primary reason to come to America is to get a driver's license?

Your rant is pretty light on justifiable facts.

"he above survey was of DEMOCRATS, DEMOCRATS who opposed the idea of driver's licenses for illegals, yet the Supreme Idiot John E. railes against "right wingers.""

You mean the same way a Republican disagree with the war, yet the "Republican" Supreme Idiot John D rails against the "looney lefties."

Puhsleez.

BTW did yah know that John W (a Republican) doesn't not agree with the war (or did that little convo vanish as quick as it happened) yet you still (do the but-) rail against the "looney lefties." Be a man John D take it up with John W every time he posts against the war. Oh wait you are a political hack. See yah.

Dear BC:

1. Look straight up at the top of the page and you will see where it says 63 percent of Democrats polled thought Spitzer’s plan was bad. That’s not a poll of Democrats from New York. It’s a poll of a “national focus group.” 63 percent is a commanding majority. 63 out of 100 votes in the U.S. Senate, for example, is enough to end a filibuster.

Furthermore, the fact that 72 percent of New Yorker’s are opposed to Spitzer’s plan to give driver’s licenses to illegal aliens is amply found on Google. Use Google sometime to research what I have written to find your own answers – because I don’t step and fetch for you. Had you Googled the issue you would have found

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1911567/posts

and

http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/opinion/maggiegallagher/story.aspx?content_id=567c008b-f61c-421f-9646-8a4b3c3b0312

both of which substantiate the 72 percent figure.

2. The Firearm Owner’s ID (FOID) is an invention of Illinois, and is not universally required throughout the United States to purchase firearms. As far as I know, the only other States that has laws like Illinois and its FOID requirement are New Jersey and Massachusetts. Some other States require licenses, but only for pistol ownership and purchases. The only instance where all States require any kind of license or permit is where someone wants to carry a concealed weapon. This has always been the case.

Many States only require: 1) a valid Id showing one is old enough to purchase a firearm, and 2) a background check to insure that a disqualified person (e.g. mentally ill, drug addict, felon, someone with a restraining order against them, etc.) doesn’t purchase a firearm (and not all States are uniform on those prohibitions). If a person’s state and federal records don’t come up with one of those disabling factors, the purchase goes through. Being an illegal alien isn’t something that gets flagged in the process unless the person is already in the federal database as such. Thus, a driver’s license could easily allow illegal aliens to illegally purchase rifles and shotguns in many States including New York (except New York City).

Educate yourself. As I said, I’m not going to step and fetch for you. If you don’t believe me, Google it.

3. Is there no difference between a thief stealing a loaf of bread and the government telling the thief that he or she may steal the loaf of bread? Yes, of course there is. In the first instance, the person commits a crime, and in the second instance the wrong committed has been sanctioned by the State. But it is still wrong because it harms the lawful interests of the citizens. The only difference is that the citizen who is wronged doesn’t get to do anything to redress the wrong.

The same is true of handing out driver’s licenses to illegal aliens. Right now, it is unlawful for illegal aliens to drive because they don’t qualify for driver’s licenses – and, thus, don’t have them. However, if Governor Spitzer’s plan goes through, an illegal alien who cannot walk on the street without violating federal law will be able to lawfully drive in New York and throughout the United States. It signifies government approval for driving that gives them the ability to take jobs from citizens and legal aliens. It means that a police officer will not be able to ticket or arrest a person who is an illegal alien for driving on the street or even for being an illegal alien. [In case you haven’t noticed, the proposed driver’s licenses for illegal aliens doesn’t say “I’m an illegal alien” on them. If it did, no illegal alien would apply for one.] This now papers over the sins of employers who will now be able to say, “Gee he had a driver’s license. How was I to know?”

Moreover, any effort to make illegal aliens welcome in this country can do nothing but encourage further illegal immigration. Letting illegal aliens know that they have nothing to run from in the State of New York is just such an encouragement. It will make New York a magnet for them.

4. Giving driver’s licenses to illegal aliens will give them the ability to avoid arrest and detection on our roads and highways. Thus, if an illegal alien commits a crime, he or she will be able to not only “lawfully” drive on our highways, he or she will be able to produce a driver’s license that would thwart further police inquiry into their identity and destination. So, no, it’s not just a matter of letting them out of “the houses, apartments and trailers that they live in” as you put it. It provides a further means of immunity from government interdiction throughout the country. Remember that a driver’s license in one State is always honored in every other State for long distance travelers. It’s only when a person chooses to change residence that the old driver’s license isn’t honored any more.

5. It is a myth that illegal aliens only take jobs that Americans won’t take. There are many labor intensive jobs, such as construction worker, warehouseman and meat packer, that illegal aliens now occupy in significant numbers. Many Americans who once did these jobs are now unemployed. I personally know a number of American citizens who are unemployed construction workers.

6. Yes, we have no extradition treaty with Mexico. It is true that Marco Morales was arrested by Mexican authorities and eventually returned to the United States. However, that was not done pursuant to any treaty with Mexico. That was done because the Mexican government, out of its graciousness and largesse, chose to honor a request to render him. If we had a treaty arrangement, we would be able to demand extradition, and not have to beg for it on a case by case basis. Many people of Mexican origin have skip bail and flee across the border to escape prosecution. It is rare to hear from them again unless they return voluntarily. Bail bondsmen who post bail for them get soaked for the amount of the bail unless they take extraordinary efforts to recapture those individuals themselves (including sending their own investigators to Mexico and/or paying for some cooperation from the Federales.) I know this because I once represented a bail bondsman who did so.

And you say I am “light on my facts”? Huh? There is nothing wrong with my grasp of the facts, pal. I think you are ignorant and, perhaps, a little light on reading ability and logic.

If this is true than how come Utah and other states have allowed illegals to have driver's licenses?

Posted by: john | November 2, 2007 9:47 AM

Because Utah and a handfull of other states have openly rebelled against the federal government on this issue. In particular, utah passed a resolution declining to implement the Real Id Act of 2005. In case you didn't know it, there is a storm on the horizon.

The fact that this sort of anarchy is endorsed by a sitting governor, a probable presidential candidate and facilitated by the head of "Homeland Security" is ample proof that the storm is here.

Liberall Dems don't care about you or the little guy or the illegal. Only holding on to power and control.

The reason the Dems back drivers licenses for illegals is it allows them to vote. Millions of illegals voting in our elections means Dems hold on to power.

Simple.

CORRECTION

I made a small mistake in two posts above. That mistake consisted of claiming we have no extradition treaty with Mexico.

In fact, technically, we do have an extradition treaty with Mexico. However, it is so worthless that we may as well not have one. In particular, the treaty does not require the Mexican government to extradite any Mexican national to the United States for crimes committed here. Pursuant to that discretion, the government of Mexico has declined extradition in all but the most extraordinary cases.

Instead, the Mexican government exercises its option to prosecute their own citizens for crimes committed here. The results, however, have been pathetic. More than 85% of the cases Mexico elects to prosecute never get prosecuted. The remaining 15% of the cases either result in acquittals or substantially reduced sentences. The Mexican government has all but ignored requests from this side of the border for anything resembling accountability for the prosecution of Mexican nationals that committed crimes in the United States.

This is why, as I indicated, that some American bail-bondsmen have resorted to hiring Mexican police to help them kidnap the Mexican national for whom an arrest warrant was issued in the United States. The Mexican government has, however, taken offense to this practice, and has demanded that such activities stop as a condition to any further cooperation with the United States.

Murderers, robbers, rapists, child molesters and the like live in safety and freedom on the other side of the border. So, we really have to ask ourselves if that is a country with which we should have an open border. I think not.